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1. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:04 AM
   Certs are like college degrees, 'cept cheaper. All it says is that you can take tests real good.
   
   I have met numerous individuals certified as an mcse or mcdba and found out that they know lots about theory, however application eludes them.
   
   Certs do have their value though. For someone that only has a couple years experience in the business a cert can help make the decision of the hiring manager. They look good on paper, just as a BS/BA or Masters looks good on paper.
   
   There is one thing that a cert does say, you are willing to learn and want to improve your skills, an absolute must in this industry.
2. #  Sebastian January 20, 2006 1:19 PM
   "There is one thing that a cert does say, you are willing to learn and want to improve your skills, an absolute must in this industry."
   
   I agree with you on that part. Having said that, many people still believe that because certs look good on paper, as you said, that's all it takes to get a foot inside the field.
   
   What these people should be more worry about is getting experience in the field, and I know this first hand.
3. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 1:47 PM
   Certs + No Experience = meaningless. Certs + years of Experience = Gold. Many employers won't look at people without certs. Plus consider this: Two candidates, same experience, similar skills, one slot to fill. One candidate with no certifications, one with very relevant certifications...comes time to hire...who gets the job?
4. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 1:53 PM
   Certs are not everything, I agree. But they do have their purpose, after you have some experience under your belt. I feel certs are more of a compliment on a resume than the key to a IT career. Most new comers should put some time in the trenches first, then worry about making the money. But there lies the problem, people are not patient and want their money now. If you are new to IT you should be worried about the experience not the money at first, with experience comes the money.
5. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 1:54 PM
   I've always looked at certs being good for two things.
   
   The first thing they show is that you are willing to learn. This is especially true if the cert is outside of your normal field of expertise. For exmple, a Windows admin who has an RHCE or CCNP cert (in my opinion) shows that they are willing to learn other skills. It shows some diversity in knowledge even if you don't have experience.
   
   The other thing I think that certs are good for is to help get a first interview. They look good on paper so they may help you get past the initial screening process. Once you get that first interview, however, the value of the cert is not much. The interviewer will be able to tell if you know your stuff or not.
   
   That being said, there is no substitute for experience. Don't expect a certification to be the thing to bring employers to your door but I don't think they hurt either.
6. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 1:58 PM
   I got my A+ when i was 12, MCP when i was 17 and CNA when i was 18. I never bother to get more, why? If i can't land a good or even shitty IT job with them, what good will MCSE do?
   
   So i took it a different course. I got a FreeBSD certification and SUN cert. at 19 and since have had a little better luck in landing good jobs in the IT field. I'm still 19 and going to college. YOu know what kind of jobs MCSE, MCP, CNA and A+ get you now-a-days?
   
   A damn techno weenie at you local Bestbuy, Frys, CompUSA, whatever.
7. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 1:58 PM
   when 2 guys go for a job interview with pretty much the same qualification and experience, the cert will be the deciding factor . having said that i do not have a lot of cert, it is usually attained free during my time in the company aka FOC. I am working in a school so life is pretty dull and predictable. Nothing ever changed not true in commercial world where business is cut throat and staying at the top means survival of the fitest.
8. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 1:58 PM
   I got my A+ when i was 12, MCP when i was 17 and CNA when i was 18. I never bother to get more, why? If i can't land a good or even shitty IT job with them, what good will MCSE do?
   
   So i took it a different course. I got a FreeBSD certification and SUN cert. at 19 and since have had a little better luck in landing good jobs in the IT field. I'm still 19 and going to college. YOu know what kind of jobs MCSE, MCP, CNA and A+ get you now-a-days?
   
   A damn techno weenie at you local Bestbuy, Frys, CompUSA, whatever.
9. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 1:58 PM
   Let me be the first to tell you that you are dead wrong about certification being worthless. I currently hold several major certifications. These pretty much landed me my current job.
   
   I have a CISSP a CISA and CCSP. These titles are not easy to get like an MCSE but are needed much more and in turn helped me get a high paying job with a hospital company. I wouldn't have the job without the titles. Also if you take a look at any job ad for an IT professional you will see it says that a certain certification is preferred.
   
   Whether they want an MCSE or a CCIE. Companies always want something besides just college and experience.
10. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 1:59 PM
    This post sucks farts from seagulls' assholes.
11. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:01 PM
    It's kind of funny because I believe that certs can only add to your value over all. I agree that they are not the only thing you need in the IT world. I have been a network administrator for about 3 years now & still I do not have my MCSE only my A+ & N+. It’s really a combination of experience, good work ethic & the willingness to learn new technologies that will make you an overall good IT person. It’s funny that this topic came up because just yesterday I purchased all my materials to get my MCSE 2003 because I believe it will only add value to my employability & that is important. So in conclusion certs DO play an important role but not the only role…
12. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:07 PM
    Same experience, same qualifications..
    Cert not neccessarilly deciding factor. I agree a cert can only help, but someone with a likeable personality and good presentation skills could easilly land a job over the guy with the cert.
13. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:11 PM
    Even if certifications were golden standards of ability, then a MCSE only means you know how to use one version of one company's server product.
    
    These are just VENDOR certifications. I am a certified engineering technologist. It is a certification which is given by a professional association which is recognized by treaties between Australia, South Africa, Canada, UK, Ireland, New Zealand, Hong Kong, and as a special status under NAFTA. This is a little more usefull than having a Windows 2000 MCSE or a CNA.
14. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:11 PM
    Your are a turd!!!
    
    Check your spelling!!!!
15. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:11 PM
    My last employer went the outsourcing route and I took the lapse in my employment to update my certifications instead of diving
    right back into the job fray. I
    was sending resumes out but I think
    that I needed a pause anyway.
    
    A good thing because while I
    was sending resumes out during
    this time despite 10 solid years of
    experience up to that point I'd had
    no certifications at all and was
    getting interviews but the amount
    people were willing to pay had
    definetely changed since 1998 or
    so which was the last time I was
    actively seeking jobs and the jobs
    weren't as nice as the ones I'd
    had the pick of before.
    
    Once I'd gotten six different
    certifications under my belt my
    resumes got a LOT more interest
    because it shows that yes, you
    can take tests well but it shows
    you're willing to fork out the
    dough, work hard to pass the
    tests and put some effort into
    your existence.
    
    I agree that you should definetely
    have more experience with different
    platforms (Linux, Mac, other
    Unix-based enterprise platforms) if
    you can because it makes you more
    attractive to the employer.
    
    Sure, an MCSE can't hurt but real
    experience and VARIED experience
    (not just MS) will help more than
    a piece of paper on the wall.
16. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:13 PM
    I could say the exact same bxxxxxit about getting a college degree. I see no facts in this post backing up why Certs aren't worth getting.
17. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:16 PM
    "Certifications will get you an interview...Experience will get you the job."
    Quoted for Truth!
    
    I have been doing just about everything computer related I can for the past 9 years, yeah I'm still a noob, but I want to get certifications in many different things to get that little extra reflection on my resume lure to get the bigger fish to notice me. Spending $1000 dollars on various tests and books is MORE than worth it to add certifications to an experience filled resume. I have no college experience, don't think I ever will either, just not enough time, would take me near 8 years to get a masters in anything.
18. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:17 PM
    >Anonymous said...
    >Your are a turd!!!
    >
    >Check your spelling!!!!
    >
    >January 20, 2006 2:11 PM
    
    
    You check your spelling!
19. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:21 PM
    exception: cisco certifications. they are still respected. try to get one without any experience...
20. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:21 PM
    And we should take advise from write-up with numerous spelling and grammar errors?
    
    Want a certification? True, it won't land you jobs by itself, but it does say that you know the basics. Pair that with about 5 years of experience as an admin or a junior admin and you already have a substantial advantage over "paper" experts.
21. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:24 PM
    Even with years of experience, not having the cert can hold you back. Generally resume/application go through a paper pusher who is looking for key words that the don't even understand and if they arent there and easy to see you resume goes strait to the circular file (trash). The certs may not get you the job, but without them your resume might not get to someone who understands what they are reading. Also support companies get status with there vendors based on how many people are certified in their product, they need to have a certain number of techs with that cert to maintain that vendor rating. So they definately look better on people with lots of certs. That isnt the end al be all of getting and maintaing a job in IT, but it is a definately a big plus.
22. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:24 PM
    "I could say the exact same bxxxxxit about getting a college degree. I see no facts in this post backing up why Certs aren't worth getting."
    
    Good point and I agree. Look I have no college education but with the IT experience & a few different certs in different areas there is no reason why a person could not land a nice job & make a good living.
23. #  Greg January 20, 2006 2:24 PM
    Having spent a few years as an IT Manager for a small company, I can say that I never looked at Certs in my stack of resumes. (Except maybe, A+, maybe) In fact, I put very little importance on College education. I wanted to see a couple years providing real, and creative solutions. This gave me a good ground work to start the interview process, and then determine if the personality would work.
    I have seen a couple educated people, looking to get certs, not even be able to replace a hard drive. Or even tell me why certain DNS issues were causing problems. In my IT world, these people will never do. Learn how to do pc repair, then networking (the non-microsoft way too, ie. Linux) and you'll be 100% better off.
    In my experience getting jobs (and now clients), having the NT cert from back in 98, not a SINGLE person has ever asked me about it! I was always hired because of a referral, and my experience spoke for itself.
    Besides, I feel that Certs really say, "I know the books smarts that this vender wants me to know, not necesarily what the real world needs." I would even say that, having the NT cert, only half of it was useful information.
24. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:53 PM
    Maybe what's holding you back isn't that employers don't care about MCSE cert but that your grammar and spelling are atrocious. Better take an english class at community college next time.
25. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:56 PM
    certs get me hard
26. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:56 PM
    It's an insult to compare certifications to a University degree. College is about learning how to learn (yes, people get through it by cheating, etc.. just like everywhere else). However, certifications are about "proving" a specific trade. College isn't about preparing for a job, however, trade school or certifications are.
27. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 2:58 PM
    I picked up my MCSE shortly after it was first offered (NT 3.0/3.5). Though I went into it primarily to boost my salary and broaden my job options, I actually found the certification process itself rewarding. First, things might be different now, back then there weren’t any quick-study guides so you really had to dig through the documentation and use the systems to learn the material. It wasn’t a weekend of cramming and pop out the six tests. A few of the tests (like TCP/IP) were no-brainers because I was already very familiar with the topics, but others took a lot of time and effort. Also, although I had been working with NT since its introduction, studying for the tests forced me to learn aspects that I hadn’t yet encountered among our existing clients. Like I said, things might be different now with bootcamps, practice tests CDs, and all that, but even so their might be *some* value even so.
28. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 3:08 PM
    career vs. carrer
29. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 3:13 PM
    Certifications may hold some value in a close-call case of hiring but a referral (i.e. knowing someone on the inside)is generally more of a deciding factor these days. Let's face it, aren't Certifications to some extent a business in themselves for companies such as Microsoft? You can be book smart but inept at applying these concepts in real life and vice versa. You have to judge on an individual basis when hiring.
    
    Let's face it, the IT field isn't what it use to be in terms of employment. Yes, IT is a growing industry -- but not necessarily in the US. Businesses will do what they've always done -- look for the most they can get for the lowest cost and sell at the highest price (and maybe more so nowadays because of the prevalance of selfish greed! Thank you Baby Boomers i.e. the ME generation!). Profit always comes first. And if that means offshoring, that's what business will do regardless of whether it makes long-term sense or if it's good for the country -- unless the government limits this practice. IT is no exception to this rule. It is just another industry in a long line of industries that are being outsourced to the lowest bidders. Oftentimes this means offshoring to potential future enemies. But business only cares about their bottom line and their greedy stockholders -- the biggest of whom are often the CEOs. Lack of employment opportunites for fellow US citizens means little or nothing to them as long as their own bank accouts keep growing. And quality or customer satisfaction nowadays means very little if anything to companies regardless of the hype you may hear. That is why just about every piece of Chinese-made electronic junk doesn't last much beyond it's measily warranty period -- if that long. Go ahead try and complain about a lemon you may have bought to the so-called "customer service" line at the company you purchased from and see if most of them give a hoot or do anything about your problem. Good luck if you can even find someone who speaks clear English!
30. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 3:15 PM
    Certifications may hold some value in a close-call case of hiring but a referral (i.e. knowing someone on the inside)is generally more of a deciding factor these days. Let's face it, aren't Certifications to some extent a business in themselves for companies such as Microsoft? You can be book smart but inept at applying these concepts in real life and vice versa. You have to judge on an individual basis when hiring.
    
    Let's face it, the IT field isn't what it use to be in terms of employment. Yes, IT is a growing industry -- but not necessarily in the US. Businesses will do what they've always done -- look for the most they can get for the lowest cost and sell at the highest price (and maybe more so nowadays because of the prevalance of selfish greed! Thank you Baby Boomers i.e. the ME generation!). Profit always comes first. And if that means offshoring, that's what business will do regardless of whether it makes long-term sense or if it's good for the country -- unless the government limits this practice. IT is no exception to this rule. It is just another industry in a long line of industries that are being outsourced to the lowest bidders. Oftentimes this means offshoring to potential future enemies. But business only cares about their bottom line and their greedy stockholders -- the biggest of whom are often the CEOs. Lack of employment opportunites for fellow US citizens means little or nothing to them as long as their own bank accouts keep growing. And quality or customer satisfaction nowadays means very little if anything to companies regardless of the hype you may hear. That is why just about every piece of Chinese-made electronic junk doesn't last much beyond it's measily warranty period -- if that long. Go ahead try and complain about a lemon you may have bought to the so-called "customer service" line at the company you purchased from and see if most of them give a hoot or do anything about your problem. Good luck if you can even find someone who speaks clear English!
31. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 3:16 PM
    I can't believe anyone took this seriously. This guy can’t spell, and has no grasp of grammar, and then he wonders why he can't find a job despite the fact that he has his A+. These certifications that you have put you somewhere between being able to tie you’re own shoe and being able to breath without dying. Certifications are a great way for well qualified, experienced and educated people to showcase their expertise. If you’re an idiot to begin with, go back to community college and kill yourself. Do anything, as long as it doesn’t involve wasting other people’s time bitching about certs in a blog. Thanks to you, I actually feel dumber after reading that article. Get a life.
32. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 3:20 PM
    "You also have to understand that in the end certifications, just train you on ONE specific product, or related products, and narrow your work field a lot in the real world."
    
    No. I don't know about MCP, it seems to me like it would hold true for that, but by no means does it mean all certifications are as wide or narrow.
33. #  Rekolitus January 20, 2006 3:23 PM
    "I can't believe anyone took this seriously. This guy can’t spell, and has no grasp of grammar, and then he wonders why he can't find a job despite the fact that he has his A+. These certifications that you have put you somewhere between being able to tie you’re own shoe and being able to breath without dying. Certifications are a great way for well qualified, experienced and educated people to showcase their expertise. If you’re an idiot to begin with, go back to community college and kill yourself. Do anything, as long as it doesn’t involve wasting other people’s time bitching about certs in a blog. Thanks to you, I actually feel dumber after reading that article. Get a life."
    
    Quoted for truth.
34. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 3:53 PM
    certs or know how even a degree.. Throw those out the window its all about who you know.
35. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 4:04 PM
    With 18 years experience in IT, I walked out of High School in 87 and landed a job as a mainframe operator. I learned to code and landed jobs in many areas of the computer industry.
    
    In 93 I earned a associates in business programming so I could move from mainframe to client server. I worked for Warner, UPS, AT&T, GT Interactive, EA, a small upstart gaming company in jersey, and then started my own business.
    I never obtained my college degree and only certified myself in Windows 2000 to teach the class.
    
    You have to rely on your own ability to do a good job, ninety-nine percent of the companies out their want someone who will get the job done and come to work on time. Certifications are a dime a dozen and I have met people with tons of certifications who can't apply any of that assumed knowledge...
    Do not detach yourself from the job and realize that how you work tends to define how you are perceived and respected.
36. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 4:49 PM
    I agree wholeheartedly. I have been playing/working with computers since I was 11, I'm now 29, and I don't have a single certification, or a college education, yet I am a well compensated IT consultant. Experience speaks volumes over certifications.
37. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 5:03 PM
    Certs depend on what city your in. I leved in a little but hole of a city where all the employers required at degree. The city I live in now seems to be more cert oriented. Some companies require an A+ and even N+ just to pick up a screw drive not even IT related, PB you morons.
38. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 5:16 PM
    MCSE
    Multipule Choice Selection Engineer
39. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 5:22 PM
    Certifications are pretty worthless. As a hiring manager, when I see someone with a string of "certifications," I wonder why he spent all that time, effort, and money on buying into some tech company's marketing plan. I recently asked a friend at Microsoft whether certifications made any difference in the quality of candidates he has interviewed, and he started laughing uncontrollably. People who put their faith in "certifications" to give them an edge have just proven they do not know how to effectively manage their time.
    
    Given two candidates of relatively equal experience and education, where one has a "certification" and one has an honorable discharge from the Armed Forces, I will pick the military veteran every time.
    
    Certifications are worthless. Don't waste your time or money.
40. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 5:36 PM
    They may be worthless when applying to your shop, but lack of them result is wastebasket treatment in others. Unless you can convince other employers to not care, many applicants need to have paper.
    
    I've seen people who were respected in their field, and had lots of experience, but didn't get a job because a low level HR person trashed the application because none of the MS certs on their list showed up.
41. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 5:46 PM
    "Given two candidates of relatively equal experience and education, where one has a "certification" and one has an honorable discharge from the Armed Forces, I will pick the military veteran every time."
    
    
    Well, duh!!!!!
    
    This is hadly a fair comparison. I'd rather go to a doctor who was an Armed Forces vetran than to someone who has taken a first aid course.
42. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 5:52 PM
    My God, do any of you speak (or more importantly write) English? The majority of the anti-cert posts seem to be written by people who were hard-pressed to complete High School!
    
    Would you like to work for the Government? Major corporations? Then you will need a way to articulate your skillset - and in the world of HR, where the average person tasked with hiring has no idea how IT works, they are going to go with what the book says the qualifications are - which are 50% Certification, 50% College Degree and 50% Experience (yes, I realize that is 150% - the idea is to match 2 and get 100%). Believe it or not, the experience is hardest to document because it is subjective.
    
    I have met a lot of people who had their MCSE that shouldn't be allowed to run the soda machine at McDonald's - but that has nothing to do with the value of certifications in getting a job.
    
    As someone who is extensively certified (and arguably certifiable) I can tell you that they help. But most important in the job hunting process is how you present yourself. And sometimes, maybe having the certification will help you feel better about who you are, giving you the confidence you need to go for that job you aren't sure you can get. Go for it!
    
    p.s. - Often, the certification shows something else important to corporate America: your ability to conform. Hate it if you want to, but it's true.
43. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 6:15 PM
    If you want a job as a low level IT tech in some nameless and faceless local company, then by all means, go ahead and get your certification or your "degree" from someplace like DeVry or the University of Phoenix.
    
    If you want a job at a real company involved in producing major advances in the tech revolution, like a Google, Apple, Microsoft, or Cisco, then your "certifications" are an impediment. You will be laughed at after you leave by the people who interview you, if indeed you are even able to garner an interview in the first place.
    
    The best "certification" is the demonstrated ability to communicate well in the English language, to think clearly, and to successfully apply these skills over time to a number of different problem areas.
44. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 6:59 PM
    I got an MCSE certification back on 3.51. Back before there were trainin centers, examp cram books etc. You ahd to put a lot of effort into training yourself, maybe going to an expensive microsoft taught class and reading a lot of reference manuals. Since then I got a MCP on Active Directory because when I was looking for a job again, it was the NT4/2000 conversion. Having AD cert landed me a job which lasted 2 years.
    
    In my current job we run Windows/Mac. I didn' thave any mac experience but I was hired because they figured if i could get an MCSE, i can learn what I need to on a mac. Plus at this time i've got 12 years experience.
    
    So it helps. It's not worth as much as it was back when i got MCSE, but it's still got some worth. If you've got it and your competitor doen't and you're pretty much equal in every other respect, you should get the job unless you screw up your interview.
    
    On the other hand though, experience is the trump card. If you're green with an mcse, a guy with 10 years experience will get the job over you. But in my case at least for my latest job which iv'e been at for 3 years, the MCSE compensated for my lack of experience in one area proving that i have the ability to learn and master.
45. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 8:15 PM
    thanks for the advice. i really needed it.
46. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 8:15 PM
    This is not a trend that I was aware of, but after reading this it kinda makes sense. I have just started to think more seriously about persuing certifications myself. I do have several years of experience, but I'm looking to validate the skills I already have, while possibly learning a few more in the process. I understand the perspective of a hiring manager choosing between someone with experience and certifications, or even just experience, and soemone with just certifications.
47. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 8:49 PM
    If you study the material and actually learn the stuff that the certification covers, it can be helpful. And if the person hiring knows their way around technology, they can weed out the Paper Certs. A lot of the problems I've run into with trying to get a tech job is the technologically illiterate HR person filling the position. I once had one ask me if I had an A+ Cert, and if I would be willing to get one right away if hired. I told him that I could waste half a day and some money getting it, but that my 3 years of solely supporting a company of 60 users/computer and 6 servers, along with my 4 year college degree in Computer Engineering should make that requirement unnecessary. He didn't seem to think so. -Scott Maynard www.cashewraffle.com
48. #  Anonymous January 20, 2006 10:04 PM
    I've got 8+ years doing IT consulting, server/network support and have now moved into in IT security role. I did get my CISSP a few years ago and that so far has been very worthwhile when combined with my experience. I am now looking at going back to school and get my bachelors at the age of 30 so I can continue moving up the ranks in the corporate world. Its all a matter of if you are happy with your current situation or if you want more.
49. #  Sebastian January 20, 2006 11:45 PM
    I'm glad this post has sparked such debate. First and foremost, to those who complain about the grammar etc, this was written of the top of my head in a short period of time. I never billed myself as a NYTimes Editor.
    
    Disclaimer aside, I would like to point point out that getting certified once you have a stable position in job can be indeed beneficial for you. This happens plenty regularly on the field, where the company requires their IT group to get certified for several reasons. In this case, yes been certified can bring extra benefits along (like higher pay), and complements nicely the experience and knowledge you already have.
    
    What I am trying to get across, is that if you solely bank on your certifications to get you a job in the field, you are sadly mistaken. Experience is the key, as I said. Also, I want to let people know that just because you have X amount of certs under your name, it doesn't mean that your salary will reflect that. Plenty of times, certified people start with miserable salaries. Yet many people don't tell you this, and make you believe that you will be getting payed well just because you are Microsoft, CISCO, whatever vendor Certified.
    
    Certifications are not a bad thing to have, however as many have said, they may land you the interview, is up to YOU to land the job. Up to you to get the experience, and learn beyond what any text book can tell you.
50. #  Anonymous January 21, 2006 2:15 AM
    Dude,
    
    How about this? A cert plus spelling, punctuation and grammar skills!!! How far that THAT get me??!! You can't say a cert is worthless just because you are lacking in all the other skills that make up a good network admin.
    
    nMe
51. #  Anonymous January 21, 2006 2:38 AM
    "If you want a job at a real company involved in producing major advances in the tech revolution, like a Google, Apple, Microsoft, or Cisco, then your "certifications" are an impediment. You will be laughed at after you leave by the people who interview you, if indeed you are even able to garner an interview in the first place."
    
    To work at those places you really need a degree from a good school (Stanford, MIT, etc.).
52. #  Anonymous January 21, 2006 5:48 AM
    Most of the enterprises wanted these certificates to do services. Eg. if you wan't to be a dealer of HP, you have to take many exams (above of the minimum income).
53. #  Anonymous January 21, 2006 9:44 AM
    I agree with the fact that if you want to work at companies like MS, Google or Apple you need a solid degree from MIT and colleges like that. Since, I am an Indian and everybody in US is worried about jobs being given to indians,most of the indians who land up such jobs (high paying ones, in terms of USD), do so without getting certs. All companies want is a good degree from a solid college.
54. #  Sebastian January 21, 2006 10:48 AM
    I would like to welcome all Blue's News readers. Enjoy the article, and pardon any grammatical errors you may find.
55. #  Anonymous January 21, 2006 12:58 PM
    20 years in IT (wow time flys or isit flies?) and yes I have my NT 4 cert LOL. I agree with everything you said good job.
56. #  Anonymous January 21, 2006 1:01 PM
    I have to agree, certifications aside from the actual educational benefit (thats if you don't just cheat) are of little value with little or no experience. If you accept a lower level job to get this experience the required certs for those jobs are the most basic and easily obtained forms.
    
    I think too many people confuse certs with college. You can get all kinds of jobs with a degree from certain schools many times not in your field of study even. If you think a cert alone is going to get you a admin job your about 6-7 years too late my friend. Please stop bashing certs if this is all your willing to do to get that job....get a piece of paper.
    
    
    Learn to communicate in your field properly. Show that you have a good head on your shoulders and you can work effectively. Prove you are able to showup on time and on a regular basis. This stuff goes miles with the person doing the hiring. Even a non technical person will respect these traits in a potential hire.
57. #  Anonymous January 21, 2006 6:16 PM
    Certs are not worthless. People make millions scamming you to get them...
58. #  Anonymous January 21, 2006 6:41 PM
    When most people think Certs they think MCSE or some other flavor of Microsoft. In the security and investigations fields a CISSP and the ISACA certs CISA/CISM are very much in demand. Since I've moved into management I'm surprised I would have gone back on my thought that certifications should never enter the hiring process. At a very minimum I've come to expect a CISSP from any candidates. To me a certification means that you've read the book and are somewhat familiar with the terminology that is used in your profession. Unless I'm hiring a junior position I would expect everyone to have at least read about similar topics. Certifications are also useful when dealing with your company's project management department. Most PM jobs require a PMP certification with a MBA preferred. One thing that really annoys me is when you have two divisions of executive management, one with certifications and a few MBA's and another division who have been with the company for 20 years and don't think they have to continue learning new vocabulary or ways of doing things. Granted as a consultant it's all billable time when you have to extend a meeting by 2-3 hours to catch up the latter group on what the former group already knows, but like anyone I would rather be "doing" rather than talking about doing in a meeting.
59. #  Tony January 21, 2006 7:22 PM
    I agree with Sebastian. I personally hold CompTia/Microsoft certs and went to the "Microsoft Certified Centers".
    
    Those centers tend to hype things WAY too much. Most places you really want to work for will have their on tests in place (especially gov't facilities, which I worked for) and your interviewer will more likely than not just glance over your certs without any regard and just look at your EXPERIENCE.
    
    That's all this industry gives a damn about. Experience is the key to success in any field, but especially IT.
    
    The only cert worth having and some employers appreciate are Cisco certs. Other than that, I wouldn't waste my time on any other certs.
    
    Just my 0.02 cents...
60. #  Anonymous January 22, 2006 4:57 AM
    I work at Microsoft. Btw, no, you don’t need a PHD from MIT to work here at MS, just connections, and "Street Cred". More on that later though.....
    
    I agree mostly with this article.
    
    Yes, it’s true that certs are ok to get your "foot in the door" for an entry-level position (like testing). Testing is a great place to start a career btw. But going for anything larger, good luck! Most corporations don’t hire unless you have a 4-year degree.
    
    I don't think of myself as more intelligent than the next person. I work at MS and don't have any certs or a PHD. I do have two BAs from a 4 year university and good networking skills (i.e. I know a lot of people, not a lot of Cisco). Having a good work ethic, learning quickly, and being personable at the same time, IMO, is more important than “skills”.
    
    It's been my experience the last 10 years in Redmond/Seattle (Dev, DBA, SA, Archetech, test), that most new people from MS certs are more concerned with impressing people. It’s annoying and amateurish. These people should be focusing on the two most important skills of all, communication and being a good listener. Sounds cheesy, but it really does affect you down the road.
    
    If you really want develop a long career in IT and make money, obviously focus on the job, but don’t forget the people around you, even if they are from another country. The IT world is very VERY small.
    
    Also, 99.9% of people hire based on credibility. If you have a good foundation, and you can pretty much learn anything, they should hire you. Its not bad being a "jack of all trades" sometimes.
    
    Once you actually have a job, make the most of it, but IMO, it’s very important to develop meaningful relationships with people inside the industry and build your "Street Cred". Being a pure skill-based worker is just a waste of time. When people know you can "get the job done" no matter what it is, they don't ask for resumes. They just want you. Sometimes they even hire you without a resume. Why do you need a resume when they already know who you are?
    
    My two cents:)
61. #  Anonymous January 23, 2006 9:42 AM
    Experience is essential. You can't get anywhere without experience. At least, it is difficult to get anywhere you want to go without experience.
    
    Education (ie. a degree)is often quite usefull. Despite a lot of people who claim degrees are just pieces of paper, they probably would want their local grocery store to have a piece of paper from the health department.
    
    Credibility, and people skills, are absolutely essential. Unless you want to be stuck in a back room somewhere installing graphics cards for the next 40 years, you need to get along with other people.
    
    Certifications are important for getting jobs. They are not important for keeping jobs, unless that is part of the job description. Some people have claimed that certifications are a waste of time, an indication of poor time management, or a reason to be ridiculed. Obviously, these people haven't done a wide scale survey of job postings.
    
    Up in Canada, you almost need 30 certifications and a double PhD to install Windows.
    
    Unless the hiring is being done by experiences IT people, who justifiably use knowledge and experience as a guide, the hiring is done by people who often can't remember their network logon username. They go by qualification lists, which are often just lists of certifications.
    
    People who rail against certifications may be comfortable with their moral stance, but may cut off large areas of the IT sector as possible career choices. This may be fine for those who have resumes that would wow anyone. However, to try to convince new entrants into the sector to avoid certifications, rather than suggesting that traditional education with experience in the field , is either irresponsible or simply an attempt to decrease possible competition.
62. #  Anonymous January 23, 2006 10:24 PM
    I think taking tech classes is a good thing, I take one or two a year. It's not only a good way to sharpen or learn new skills it's also a good way to network. But I think the certs are pretty useless. As an IT Manager, I could care less if you passed a test. I care more about a college degree, experience and interpersonal skills.
    
    I've never had a cert in anything and see no reason to.
63. #  Anonymous January 24, 2006 9:11 AM
    As an IT manager, you don't need one. Unfortunately, lots of places won't look at a tech without one.
    
    
    Anyway, if you believe Gartner the days of the pure tech who doesn't have a MBA are pretty much over.
64. #  Sebastian January 24, 2006 10:15 AM
    Again great comments from many people. I for one agree with what someone said here about certs making your resume stand a higher from the rest. I also agree with what Ed said, experience, communications skills, and a college degree will get you further than any other well know IT cert you may be able to obtain.
65. #  Anonymous January 28, 2006 11:50 AM
    Many people still believe it is important... I personally don't ...
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67. #  Anonymous November 04, 2008 1:07 PM
    I got my A+ when i was 12, MCP when i was 17 and CNA when i was 18. I never bother to get more, why? If i can't land a good or even shitty IT job with them, what good will MCSE do?
    
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    Certs are like college degrees, 'cept cheaper. All it says is that you can take tests real good.
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